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Sangh Parivar is communalising civil rights: Interview with John Dayal

Strap: RSS, VHP get foreign funds without any check, says John Dayal

John Dayal, secretary general, All India Christian Council and Member, National Integration Council, has been a critic of Sangh Parivar. He has been fighting for the cause of the Dalit Christians for the past several years. Currently, Dayal is working 24/7 to bring out a While Paper on Orissa – 2008.

In a detailed interaction with Sai Prasan, a senior journalist, John Dayal spoke on issues ranging from the Dalit Christian rights to the foreign funding of the RSS and VHP to pursue communal politics in Orissa. Excerpts:

What will be the strategy of the Church in countering the violence unleashed by the Hindu fundamentalists on the Dalit Christians in Kandhamal? How Church will protect their life?

John Dayal: As a peaceful people, we can do nothing but pray. But as citizens of India, there is much we can do, and have done. We have moved constitutional authorities in the political, administrative and judicial spheres, ranging from President of India, prime minister and chief minister to the High Court and the Supreme Court. We are hoping the government will provide enough CRPF forces to ensure peace in Kandhamal, and if necessary, will call in the Indian Army.

There is a strong opinion that Christian organizations also do not want quick solution of the problem as they get foreign funds in the name of persecution?

JD: We want the violence against us to end as soon as possible so that the refugees can go home. We have a vested interest in peace. It is the Hindutva forces that thrive on tension and fear. The church does not get a penny from any source without the knowledge and permission of the government. The Foreign Contribution Regulation Act (FCRA) ensures that. In fact, the RSS and Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) get foreign funds from NRIs without any check.

Why the Church failed in fulfilling the aspirations of the Dalit Christian youth as youngster are either joining Left extremism or they are Naxal sympathizers in Orissa including in Kandhamal region?

JD: The government has failed and betrayed us. It gave Dalit rights to Buddhists and Sikhs but has denied us those rights. It is a communal gesture and seeks to keep Dalits as bonded labour of Hindu upper caste society. The church is doing what it can from its limited resources, but it is committed to helping all people without reserving its activities only for Christians. It helps Hindu Dalits as much as Hindu Tribals and non-Hindu Tribals.

Naxalites and Maoists, which are different ideologies, do not have a religion. Most ultras are from Hindu families. There may be some from Muslim, Sikh or Christian families in the country, including Kandhamal.

Why are the Dalit Christians in Orissa divided on the denominational lines? Why are the different Churches staking their claim on Dalits?

JD: This is not a fact. Orissa has several regions and the situation differs from one place to another. In the plains, especially in the Cuttack-Bhubaneswar-Berhampur coastal region, there are a few upper caste Christians, even perhaps in Sambhalapur. The rest are Oriya Dalits. And in both segments, both the Catholic and Protestant churches are prevalent. In the protestant churches, the Baptists are the dominant groups in Cuttack, for instance. In Tribal areas, the situation is slightly different. In the Northern region adjoining Madhya Pradesh and Jharkhand, the Oraons and other Tribals are mostly Catholic for historic reasons but there are Church of North India, which is about thirty years old and was founded by uniting existing denominations such as Church of England and Presbyterian, and Pentecost groups also.

The situation in Kandhamal is complex. Kandhamal has four groups of people. The outsiders are Oriya migrants from the plains who are mostly Hindus. The local people are Kondhs, Kuis, who speak the same language as the Kondhs but are ethnically different, and the Panos who speak a variant of Oriya but are culturally and ethnically different. All three groups have both Catholics and Protestants. The Protestants, as usual consist of Baptists, the oldest, church of north India and new Pentecost groups. Some Kondhs are also nature worshippers and are not Hindus.

The historic reason is that both Catholics and Baptists first came about 140 years ago from two streams – from Calcutta and from the Madras Presidency region. The churches they established continue to this day. The Catholics are the most visible because of the structured churches and the Nuns.

What are the reasons behind your not attending in person the proceeding of the State instituted Commission (investigations) in Orissa?

JD: There two reasons. First, the government could not provide security to witnesses coming from Kandhamal. Second was that Mr Panigrahi seemed to have made up his mind? I have, together with the church, decided to boycott both commissions.

What is the permanent solution of Kandhamal violence ?

JD: Permanent peace can come with justice and implantation of constitutional guarantees. The police cannot be partisan. The poison which was spread by Mr Lakhmanananda will have to be removed. Forcible conversions will have to be stopped, and the guilty should punished ; the rule of law has to be maintained. Churches and houses must be rebuilt, livelihood given, education restored and normal life encouraged. Kondhs, Kuis and Panos, whatever be their religion, will have to live together in peace and they will do so once they understand that the government will be fair and will not tolerate violence.

How do you portray Indian Dalit Christians in front of the western world including Vatican City specially through Christian media – www.persecution.in and www.dalitnetwork.org and similar other websites and publications?

JD: Indian Dalits are a marginalised group, who have been denied their constitutional rights. No more. No less. They are fighting for their rights, and will get them some day.

What is the view of the western world including Vatican City on Indian Dalit Christians? Or What is the take of Vatican on the Dalit Christians?

John Dayal: The same.

At what level, the discrimination exists between the Christians and Dalit Christians? How the co-existence is maintained within the Church periphery in the social context?

JD: Historically till about fifty years ago, some churches in south India had separate segments for Dalits and upper caste. It is not so any more. But traces exist. Caste is an Indian phenomenon, and all religions including Muslims and Sikhs and Christians have practiced it at some level. That is the truth. Even Mahatma Gandhi wanted an end to untouchability only, but not to caste. The church has outlawed caste within it and is working hard to make it a reality. There has been much success, but traces still remain.

Are the Dalit Christians going to remain Dalit Christians for ever as it is being observed in Southern states including literate Kerala where Christianity is 1,900 years old? Has church kept any time frame for their total integration?

JD: Of course not. There will be no more Dalit Christian when there are no more Dalit Hindus. In the church, there will be no separate feeling within the next generation.

How do the reformed Dalits view themselves in the Christian fold? Is there any behavioural awkwardness among Dalit Christians?

JD: No different from the rest.

Are Dalit Christians willing to forego the state offered benefits like land and jobs once they are converted to Christianity? Has the Church taught Dalits the Central tenets of Christianity after adopting them into its fold?

JD: Dalit Christians get no benefits from the government. Dalit Christians are the same as any other Christian in their faith understanding.

Why does the Church think that it has started the social reform process when the Church leadership itself concedes that it does not interfere in the social issues like discrimination on the caste lines in marriages ?

JD: Church does not interfere in anything of a personal nature, but the social teachings of the church make it clear that it does not acknowledge or encourage castism .

Do you endorse the Dalit concept in Christianity as Bible does not permit any discrimination on any ground. Why do you demand reservation for the Dalit Christians which is against Bible?

JD: I do not endorse any discrimination on any basis — caste, race, gender. The Bible does not come into the picture in getting legal rights.

You are vocal on Dalit Christian’s reservation in public sector. But, why are you silent on similar reservation in the private sector where the presence of Dalits is negligible?

JD: I support affirmative action in all spheres of society, including what is called the private sector but is built on bank funds and tax rebates from government agencies.

Any there any other issue which you want to convey.

JD: These are issues of justice and of the rights of citizens. Let us not let religion come into it. That is communalising civil rights. That is what the Sangh Parivar is doing.

updates from Anti Communal Campaign in Orissa.

My dear Friends,

I am just back from the Anti Communal Campaign in Orissa.

The Dalits and Tribals were bold enough to stage the Street Theatre from 6-16 December in Orissa. It attracted thousands of people all over Orissa. Twice Police tried to stop it but the players and the audience went ahead with it. Once the RSS wanted to stop the play but the Audience protected the Actors.

The name of the play is Idam Natyam Shashtram - THIS IS THE SCIENCE OF DRAMA.

It is written in the backdround of the Indian Tradition. It is very powerful play. The message of the play is: ‘Please do not be fundamentaliostic and Communalisatic but LIBERAL and open to all traditions. Then we become great. It is a lesson for all fundamentalism in different religions.’

The script was written and directed by Shankar Mahananda. CD of the play is available. Please contact Shankar. It is in ORIYA. His mobile number is: 09937158847.

Thomas Kocherry

Campaign: CITIZENS FOR PEACE

Evangelical Fellowship of India NEWS

MUMBAI
26/11
Unites One Billion People
against TERROR.

ORISSA
23/08
63 killed
50,000 displaced
(and still homeless).

Should we not
UNITE ALSO AGAINST TERROR
within ?

Calling Central and State Governments, All Political Parties and Civil Society to Act Now to

  1. Restore normalcy in Kandhamal of Orissa.
  2. Rehabilitate all by providing effective security.
  3. Reconstruct all damaged houses, institutions and places of worship.
  4. Rigorously end hate campaign all over Orissa.
  5. Reconciliatory steps between all communities.
Peace on earth and goodwill towards all women and men.

A message of light, hope, love and healing brought to our Nation of one billion this CHRISTMAS
by the

CITIZENS FOR PEACE

ingredients for peace in Kandhamal and in Orissa : John Dayal

Dear friends

Greetings

We must welcome every single effort at peace in Kandhamal and in Orissa

Its main ingredients must be:

  1. Immediate return of all Christians to their homes
  2. Removal of fear — which means adequate and more CRPF as local police has tainted itself.
  3. Punishment for the guilty — all guilty including those responsible for any violence against Hindus, but no harassment of innocent. The harassment of innocents becomes the cause of long term enmity and mutual suspicion anger.
  4. Reconciliation between Kondhs and Kuis and Panos of all religions — Christians, Hindus and Indigenous, and Oriyas traders in Kandhamal. They have to live in future and neighbours, not in ghettos. There cannot be a ‘Lebalisation” of Kandhamal.
  5. Immediate ban on the bandh call of various groups for Christmas day, which is very provocative.
  6. Ban on entry of Togadia and Bajrang Dal and VHP leaders in Kandhamal
  7. End to hate campaign all over Orissa and the special targeting of Christian Church leaders in the hate campaigns in the presence of police, politicians and officials
  8. Civil society in Orissa, especially in Cuttack-Bhubaneswar, to assume its responsibility for educating the people. Local civil society, including professors and retired judges must set up their own monitoring committees.
  9. Political parties to assume their role and not be afraid of VHP or vote bank politics
  10. Press Council of India to monitor Oriya language print and TV media and its role in fomenting and aggravating violence
  11. Women’s Commission, Children Commission etc. must take proactive action in Kandhamal where every child is being deprived of his or her fundamental rights including nutrition and education.
  12. Further, the Church needs to do the following, and work towards:
    1. Absolutely united legal effort, now underway, but needs additional support
    2. Absolute unity in relief and rehab effort, a unity nonexistent at present. Each is helping its own, so to speak. Houses of the December 2007 violence still remain incomplete.
    3. Census of all refugees outside Kandhamal, some living with small church groups as far away as in Sreekakulam in Andhra. Every refugee must be accounted for, every injured must be listed, and the state held accountable. Otherwise their future is very dark.
    4. Move the courts for ban on bandh on Christmas day or Easter day.
    5. Senior leaders must come to Bhubaneswar to monitor the Christmas 2008 celebrations in the state of Orissa. Smaller teams must also go to districts affected, and in Kandhamal to every block
    6. Let us not ignore Christmas. Let there be no talk of black Christmas, black flags or what have you which is negative and pessimistic. Our tribute to the martyrs of Orissa as to celebrate Christmas in their memory. Maybe we can cut down on the dances and parties, but the Churches must be full at every Mass, every service and every homily must remind us of the circumstances in which Christ was born, which is the circumstance n which many a newborn will see the day on Christmas in Kandhamal.
    7. There can and must be no talk of dialogue with RSS and VHP and Bajrang Dal or apology for killing the VHP leader, as some Christians seem to be advocating. Christians did NOT kill the man. Maoists have claimed credit for shooting him. There are many other theories, including some which indict the Sangh Parivar. Please do not bring in Christians into the picture. Even by way of some half baked theological motive.
    8. Let us appreciate the work done by every church, every group, international agencies and many others. Let there be no competition, no “I” and “MY group” in staking claims and taking credits. Much remains to be done.
    9. Finally – Help us prepare a definitive WHITE PAPER on ORISSA 2008

God bless us all

Merry Christmas

John Dayal

Why does conversion matter?

Vasundhara Jairath

The outbreak of communal violence in Kandhamal has sparked off a debate on the question of religious conversion. On the one hand, census figures are being dug out to portray the ‘danger’ of the increase in percentage of Christian population and of the fast pace of conversion taking place specifically in Kandhamal, holding the strong presence of the Church responsible for this. On the other hand, progressives attempt to explain the conversions in light of the otherwise abysmal conditions and extreme poverty that large parts of the Dalit and Adivasi population live in, with the Church intervening where the State has given up all responsibilities. The debate, however, begs a befitting question.  Why does conversion matter?

The Sangh Parivar rose to power in the 1980s raking up the issue of the Ram Temple in Ayodhya, seeing to it that the whole country began to debate whether or not it could be proved that Ram was born at the very spot where Babri Masjid stood. Today, it has seen to it that the whole country is engaged in the debate of whether or not the means used by missionaries to convert people to Christianity are legal or illegal. And this, while this same country chooses without debate and discussion to unite in the face of the Mumbai Terror and condemn the
violence.

Conversion matters when votes are sought on religious lines. Conversion is a threat when communities are mobilized on a religious
basis. And to preoccupy ourselves with the debate around conversion is to play right into the hands of those that fan communal tension.